Comments on: Todd Bentley: What Does Restorative Discipline And Repentance Look Like?

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:23:22 +0000

Denise,

I care because there can be something fishy about hiding your criticisms behind anonymity. There are times when perhaps that is justified for reasons for personal safety, but that clearly wasn’t the issue here, so it aroused my suspicions. It’s nothing to do with Australia per se, I was simply mentioning how much I had managed to find out about them so far.

By: Denise Harrison

Denise Harrison — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:39:25 +0000

Why do you care so much about the identity of these people? It’s not as if you know who anyone really is by their use of an avatar or user i.d. Who cares if they are from Australia–apropos of what?

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:03:45 +0000

Mike,

Thanks for acknowledging that as sarcasm; I felt the need to be serious, because you don’t always know what someone’s tone is when it’s purely in writing.

By: mikekendall

mikekendall — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:55:30 +0000

Dave- Yeah that was a bit of sarcasm concerning Peter Kirk and his being on the payroll of FFM.
Peter- I do not deny that people with Bentley’s background can come to know and follow Jesus Christ. I am one of them, coming from a very similar background as Bentley. But when I examine Todd Bentley and others around or like him, I do not see true Biblical teaching, preaching, or fruit. I see false teaching, false prophets, no focus on Jesus, a strong focus on signs and wonders, angels, manifestations, miracles and stuff that is rooted in New age teaching/occult teaching. I call that a wolf in sheep’s clothing and so does Jesus.

Matthew 7:15-23
15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:46:30 +0000

Well, that’s my belief, given the statements from the original Fresh Fire organisation. The new one is also located in the US, as opposed to Canada, which to me (rightly or wrongly) suggests something to do with those overseeing Todd Bentley’s restoration.

By: Owen

Owen — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:34:19 +0000

ah…okay then, I could likely have misunderstood what I read about FreshFire…I thought all they did was change the name.

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:26:10 +0000

If I’m right, Owen, this is a new and different Fresh Fire organisation. I think the original one disowned Bentley.

But having said that, although here in the UK we don’t get the same level of promotion for the Christian music industry because it’s much smaller, there can be some signs of what you describe.

As for your quote from 1 Corinthians, I suspect you’re spot on.

By: Owen

Owen — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:18:36 +0000

I have to agree with Lorna’s thoughts on the “superhero” mentality…..it’s far to dangerous, and as she pointed out, not Biblical. And it seemed pretty obvious that Todd was FreshFire’s main man, so one can understand why they’re in a hurry to get him back out there. He was the show, he was the draw.(I know I’ll get some flak for that statement, too.)

I’ve also seen this in the Christian music industry…while I really enjoy a lot of the music, I’ve been to a couple concerts myself where it was hard to see the focus being on Christ, behind the person being touted as “awesome”.It’s always bothered me to hear the radio ads for these concerts…they repeat the stars name over and over in a dramatic voice…

Wasn’t that something like what Paul was upset about in 1 Corinthians 1 : 12-13…

12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[a]“; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul?

Perhaps there was somewhat of a “celebrity culture” then, too.

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:12:03 +0000

Thanks, Lorna. I’m interested particularly in your reference to ‘superheroes’. I think the evangelical world has had a problem with this issue for many years. It is exacerbated by the wider culture’s cult of celebrity, which we seem to ape, being more proud of famous people who are Christians than with everyday disciples – cf. 1 Corinthians 1, ‘Not many of you were rich’ etc. I think it is also affected by the sense of desperation in some circles at a time of church decline: if someone claims to be doing amazing things, then we flock to sit at their feet for the secret that will turn things around for the rest of us (assuming the superhero’s claims are accurate). What do you think?

By: Dave Faulkner

Dave Faulkner — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:08:51 +0000

Mike,

I’m happy for you to argue your case here, but I can underline Peter Kirk’s point that he has no connection with Fresh Fire. He and I have known each other for a year or two through blogging, and have even met in the flesh – his pastor is an old friend of mine. Peter and I happen to disagree quite strongly on this particular issue, but let me assure you he is a man of integrity.