<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Epiphany And The Recession</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/</link>
	<description>Dave Faulkner. Husband. Dad. Methodist minister. Pseudo-geek. Music lover.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:31:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: bigcircumstance</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1135</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigcircumstance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Colin,

Thanks for the kind words. 

Twenty years or so ago, I thought it was very much the thing for the church to learn from management theory. However, while there will be some crossover, these days I am less convinced by the thought. There is a whole difference between the command structure of line management and leadership in a voluntary society. There is also the danger of importing consumerism to the church, something we have tragically done in disastrous quantities in recent decades. 

Nevertheless, what is surely common is the category of &#039;vision&#039;, and maybe that is one reason why both religious organisations (including churches) and other entities such as PLCs and NHS trusts all talk the language of vision statements or mission statements today. It is important to be clear what our vision is - and what it isn&#039;t. Your allusion to William Temple&#039;s famous dictum falls squarely into that area, I think.

I note you also refer to appraisal. I fear that one is a danger for the church. Rightly we have realised the need for accountability, but some areas of the church look like they might uncritically take over secular notions of appraisal that are not necessarily easily translatable into the life of the gospel community. However, perhaps that is another post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin,</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words. </p>
<p>Twenty years or so ago, I thought it was very much the thing for the church to learn from management theory. However, while there will be some crossover, these days I am less convinced by the thought. There is a whole difference between the command structure of line management and leadership in a voluntary society. There is also the danger of importing consumerism to the church, something we have tragically done in disastrous quantities in recent decades. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, what is surely common is the category of &#8216;vision&#8217;, and maybe that is one reason why both religious organisations (including churches) and other entities such as PLCs and NHS trusts all talk the language of vision statements or mission statements today. It is important to be clear what our vision is &#8211; and what it isn&#8217;t. Your allusion to William Temple&#8217;s famous dictum falls squarely into that area, I think.</p>
<p>I note you also refer to appraisal. I fear that one is a danger for the church. Rightly we have realised the need for accountability, but some areas of the church look like they might uncritically take over secular notions of appraisal that are not necessarily easily translatable into the life of the gospel community. However, perhaps that is another post!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dave
A profound post.  Firstly your analysis of the economics involved looks good to me - I am an accountant by the way.  Dear Woolies has lacked a unique identity for some time.  That is not to say it did not meet needs especially in some of the local parades where it was located with minimal competition.  And niche suppliers like Wedgewood can become too narrowly focused.  Peter Drucker, a management guru of the 50s/60s, who I read a lot of, and who according to TC on New Leaven did find Christ, was hot on knowing what you exist for.  I like your drill bit example, and it made me think of a similar one from personal experience.

The potential appplication for the church seems to follow easily.  I do sometimes jib at the  amount of management speak and practice which is infecting the church.  Partly because I do that sort of thing all day, and want to get away from it at home!  That is not to deny we should be professional and high calibre in our approach to what we do.  And my first 4 years as a Reader have been subject to a mercifully light touch level of supervision and appraisal.  We should understand what we are trying to do, coming back to Temple&#039;s point that we exist for those who are not currently our members!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave<br />
A profound post.  Firstly your analysis of the economics involved looks good to me &#8211; I am an accountant by the way.  Dear Woolies has lacked a unique identity for some time.  That is not to say it did not meet needs especially in some of the local parades where it was located with minimal competition.  And niche suppliers like Wedgewood can become too narrowly focused.  Peter Drucker, a management guru of the 50s/60s, who I read a lot of, and who according to TC on New Leaven did find Christ, was hot on knowing what you exist for.  I like your drill bit example, and it made me think of a similar one from personal experience.</p>
<p>The potential appplication for the church seems to follow easily.  I do sometimes jib at the  amount of management speak and practice which is infecting the church.  Partly because I do that sort of thing all day, and want to get away from it at home!  That is not to deny we should be professional and high calibre in our approach to what we do.  And my first 4 years as a Reader have been subject to a mercifully light touch level of supervision and appraisal.  We should understand what we are trying to do, coming back to Temple&#8217;s point that we exist for those who are not currently our members!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bigcircumstance</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigcircumstance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FP,

Thanks for your comments. I think as I was typing the post (which was very &#039;stream of consciousness&#039;) it sounded like I was just using the business tragedies as examples of spiritual principles, rather like sermon illustrations (which is how I&#039;ve used the &#039;drill bits&#039; story for years). I hope I haven&#039;t minimised the pain of the current situation for millions of people.

Peter Kirk in his Gentle Wisdom piece for which there is a pingback above makes the valuable observation that churches often fade away, in contrast to companies that implode.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FP,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. I think as I was typing the post (which was very &#8216;stream of consciousness&#8217;) it sounded like I was just using the business tragedies as examples of spiritual principles, rather like sermon illustrations (which is how I&#8217;ve used the &#8216;drill bits&#8217; story for years). I hope I haven&#8217;t minimised the pain of the current situation for millions of people.</p>
<p>Peter Kirk in his Gentle Wisdom piece for which there is a pingback above makes the valuable observation that churches often fade away, in contrast to companies that implode.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bigcircumstance</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bigcircumstance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note: see Dave Perry&#039;s comments accidentally posted on &lt;a href=&quot;http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/eugene-peterson-interview/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eugene Peterson Interview&lt;/a&gt; piece.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note: see Dave Perry&#8217;s comments accidentally posted on <a href="http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/eugene-peterson-interview/" rel="nofollow">Eugene Peterson Interview</a> piece.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fat Prophet</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fat Prophet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Dave for an interesting and challenging post. There is an interesting correlation between the financial world and the spiritual, and you may have something here in respect of recession within the church, especially when we hear much about decreasing numbers etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dave for an interesting and challenging post. There is an interesting correlation between the financial world and the spiritual, and you may have something here in respect of recession within the church, especially when we hear much about decreasing numbers etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gentle Wisdom &#187; Recession Epiphany</title>
		<link>http://bigcircumstance.com/2009/01/06/epiphany-and-the-recession/#comment-1114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gentle Wisdom &#187; Recession Epiphany]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigcircumstance.com/?p=1603#comment-1114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a Methodist minister in my home town of Chelmsford (but we have met only very briefly), writes an interesting post for the feast of Epiphany (today), about the recession and what the church can learn from it. He [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a Methodist minister in my home town of Chelmsford (but we have met only very briefly), writes an interesting post for the feast of Epiphany (today), about the recession and what the church can learn from it. He [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

